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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2013 16:43:21 GMT -5
And then Iran is blamed for the attack instead?
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Post by richardcavessa on Jul 13, 2013 18:07:53 GMT -5
if anyone believed it, it would be another successful false flag attack.....now that syria, (izzy sez iran is helping), is in play. with gobbles style propaganda and hollywood limiting news, to influence nato security councle i don't think there's much chance of that, at this time anyway,,,,i have been wrong b4 tho
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Post by shred on Jul 14, 2013 4:16:08 GMT -5
When has a false flag attack happened against the USA by Israel ?
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Post by bob0627 on Jul 14, 2013 10:00:27 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 17:21:54 GMT -5
When has a false flag attack happened against the USA by Israel ? Shred, there are people who believe that Israel was behind 9/11
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Post by bob0627 on Jul 14, 2013 18:03:29 GMT -5
There are people who believe the British sank the Lusitania and blamed it on the Germans to get the US into WWI. False flags are part of history, anything is possible. Ignorant and gullible people just accept what governments and their propaganda machines feed them without question.
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Post by shred on Jul 15, 2013 2:59:13 GMT -5
When has a false flag attack happened against the USA by Israel ? Shred, there are people who believe that Israel was behind 9/11 I know that, Eric Hufschmid, Chris Bollyn and other nutters have propogated such theories but the fact is that Mohammed Atta & his gang were not Israelis, they were a rag tag bunch of Jihadists from Egypt Saudi Arabia Lebanon and the UAE. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijackers_in_the_September_11_attacks
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Post by shred on Jul 15, 2013 3:07:19 GMT -5
There are people who believe the British sank the Lusitania and blamed it on the Germans to get the US into WWI. False flags are part of history, anything is possible. Ignorant and gullible people just accept what governments and their propaganda machines feed them without question. There are idiots who will believe such unsubstantiated guff, just like there are idiots who believe the Earth is flat. If you want an example of a false flag attack by Britain look up Operation Chariot. That was a genuine false flag attack. Unsubstantiated conspiracy theories about historical events will always exist, but they're just hot air.
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Post by bob0627 on Jul 15, 2013 10:30:36 GMT -5
"Unsubstantiated conspiracy theories about historical events will always exist, but they're just hot air."
And you're quite an expert with hot air.
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Post by shred on Jul 16, 2013 5:37:54 GMT -5
I climbed to 2200ft on thermals (hot air) from a 1300ft winch launch in a K21 on Sunday getting 2 knots up (average) on the variometer then hit sink, descended to circuit height and landed crosswind down runway 19 as 25 was blocked by an aerotow. What did you do with your weekend (apart from feeding yourself more 'truther' bs)?
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Post by bob0627 on Jul 16, 2013 8:42:09 GMT -5
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Post by shred on Jul 17, 2013 3:55:51 GMT -5
If you think your conspiracy theories constitute 'research' you should think again. You lap up any urban myth you can find. You are not conducting research, you are wasting your days on a wild goose chase from behind a computer screen feeding yourself whatever rubbish the so called '9/11 truth' movement can offer. You are no threat to the powers that be, how could you be ? You are on a road to nowhere parroting lies.
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Post by bob0627 on Jul 17, 2013 7:48:33 GMT -5
If you think your conspiracy theories constitute 'research' you should think again. You lap up any urban myth you can find. You are not conducting research, you are wasting your days on a wild goose chase from behind a computer screen feeding yourself whatever rubbish the so called '9/11 truth' movement can offer. You are no threat to the powers that be, how could you be ? You are on a road to nowhere parroting lies. So it seems I'm a big problem for you then? Good.
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Post by shred on Jul 17, 2013 8:23:52 GMT -5
A big problem for me ? You ? Nope. My idea of a big problem would be having to land a Janus C upwind with only 160ft of height remaining while keeping the aircraft at the correct speed and not damaging it's extremely fragile nosewheel. You're just an amusingly misguided internet warrior who thinks he's some kind of super sleuth.
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Post by bob0627 on Jul 17, 2013 8:39:33 GMT -5
"You're just an amusingly misguided internet warrior who thinks he's some kind of super sleuth."
So why are you so obsessed with me then? It seems to me my posts are really threatening to your agenda.
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Post by shred on Jul 18, 2013 2:59:19 GMT -5
I'm not, you're the one obsessed (with telling lies) about 9/11. All I'm doing is countering your lies with the facts.
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Post by bob0627 on Jul 18, 2013 9:10:03 GMT -5
I'm not, you're the one obsessed (with telling lies) about 9/11. All I'm doing is countering your lies with the facts. I'll tell you what, I'll continue to post what you try to characterize as "lies" and you can keep countering with what you believe are "facts" and the reader(s) can judge for themselves. That's fair, right? If not, who cares.
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Post by shred on Jul 18, 2013 9:37:31 GMT -5
That's fine by me. But try being polite instead of your usual nasty disposition (you are a moderator and should hold yourself to the highest standards). Also, please don't derail other people's threads, stick to the topic, if you don't know enough about the issues in a thread to debate it, don't post in it.
I bear no ill feeling towards you Bob, I certainly don't hate you. For what it's worth I'm sorry for the times I've been nasty. On some topics (NSA, Bush, rendition & torture, Iraq for examples) I think you're broadly correct but when I think you're wrong I'll say so.
From now on, can we discuss as friends who disagree rather than as enemies ? There really is no need for battles on a message board.
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Post by bob0627 on Jul 18, 2013 10:21:18 GMT -5
It was never my intention to get into a s**t throwing contest or even debate this subject with you. At times it did deteriorate into garbage posts and it did seem as if it was a debate.
I have done a tremendous amount of research on 9/11 over many years and still do so almost every single day. So my primary intent is and was always to inform and educate as many people as I can that the story fed to them by government and its complicit media is a massive lie (as is just about everything they feed us). All you did was provide details on government's version of the story and those who support it and like I always said, that's part of the education process as well so thanks for that. So sometimes I use that as a focal point and often show how and why it often makes no sense. And also use your post when you bring up an appropriate point not previously addressed.
You seem to be a decent person but your position makes no sense, especially if you really are not a disinformation agent. And if you're not, why on earth would you spend all your time here trying to "debunk" and denigrate those who have legitimate issues with the official story as opposed to questioning the thousands of inconsistencies and outright lies? But that's you and obviously, you're not going to change what you do and I really don't care. Like I said, my purpose is to inform and educate, not debate you.
As to what you want me to post or not, there's not a chance on earth I will comply with any of your requests. I post what I post, when I want to post and how I want to post, as I see fit. I have never told you what to post, so consider your request(s) irrelevant.
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Post by shred on Jul 18, 2013 11:53:54 GMT -5
I understand that you have done a lot of work learning about 9/11, but the sites you have learned from are not providing you with true facts. Don't trust those sites.
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Post by bob0627 on Jul 18, 2013 14:05:40 GMT -5
I understand that you have done a lot of work learning about 9/11, but the sites you have learned from are not providing you with true facts. Don't trust those sites. Whether you mean well or not, it's not just about trusting sites or people, it's about the facts, science and logic. I read from all sites, including the "debunking" sites. There's even a site called "Debunking the Debunkers" that I've read. To me, the least trustworthy sources are those that are anonymous but I still read those anyway in case they have something worth my attention.
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Post by shred on Jul 19, 2013 3:02:26 GMT -5
Facts are that planes were hijacked and hit buildings with tremendous force causing immense structural damage and immense fire which weakened load bearing columns in the impact regions to a point where they could no longer support the loads acting upon them at which moment they gave way. That is why the twin towers fell. The twin towers ejected debris (how is explained in the Bazant paper). Debris from the twin towers hit other buildings including WTC7. WTC 7 suffered immense structural damage to it's south side and immense fire across the entire building. The Pentagon was hit by a hijacked 757 and suffered immense damage to it's outside and it's inside. Flight 93 was prematurely crashed after a passenger's revolt.
It was not an inside job. The towers were not destroyed by controlled demolitions and no characteristic blasts can be heard in unedited collapse footage. Thermites aren't explosives they are incendiaries and there is no evidence of thermites being able to destroy buildings in the manner claimed by conspiracy theorists. I have no idea about the allegations of foreknowledge of these attacks by the Bush government, but there was no stand down order given. Planes were up and were ordered to intercept and shadow the hijacked planes, their orders changed to a shoot down order after the twin tower crashes. Private Bradley Manning and Edward Snowden's revelations along with the revelations of British Hacker Gary McKinnon reveal much about the USA but do not reveal anything new about 9/11.
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Post by bob0627 on Jul 19, 2013 8:22:22 GMT -5
Why do you feel the need to repeat the official conspiracy theory ad nauseum and call it "fact"? The fact is that if that's what you believe is "fact", all you need to do is provide links to the 9/11 Commission Report and the NIST Report (which I've already done in this forum), it's much more detailed. And the fact is that it's full of publicly admitted lies, known and proven omissions, distortions and pseudo-science. You bring nothing new to the table just endless repetition of the official conspiracy theory.
I understand many people like to be comforted by having the official conspiracy theory repeated to them constantly but what's really much more important (except to the gullible, ignorant and those who would rather keep their heads in the sand) is anything that we haven't been told, not the propaganda we have already been fed and are constantly being fed to us by the propaganda machine and people such as you who try to make sure everyone memorizes it verbatim.
And that's what I bring to the table, what we haven't been told and what we'll never be told because these criminals don't want us to know that. You'll rarely read about any of the many issues about 9/11 from the lamestream media that I post in this forum.
"Private Bradley Manning and Edward Snowden's revelations along with the revelations of British Hacker Gary McKinnon reveal much about the USA but do not reveal anything new about 9/11."
So why did you bring up these people then? They don't reveal anything about the USA, they reveal massive crimes by the US government committed against Americans and the rest of the world. The US and its government are not one and the same, just like the UK and its government. The only thing these people might have in common with 9/11 is that they reveal that crimes committed by the US government are always kept secret under the pretense of "national security".
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Post by shred on Jul 19, 2013 14:27:37 GMT -5
Because it's not a conspiracy theory it is a fact. I've done research too Bob. I don't find it comforting at all to think that there are people in this world who have killed, will kill and plot to kill in defence of their religious beliefs. I find the spectre of Islamic terrorism terrifying.
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Post by bob0627 on Jul 19, 2013 17:31:29 GMT -5
Because it's not a conspiracy theory it is a fact. I've done research too Bob.
It's no more than a politicized propaganda tool, not fact. I know, you've researched everything that supports the official 9/11 conspiracy theory. Regardless, what's the point in constantly repeating it? Everyone knows the story.
"I don't find it comforting at all to think that there are people in this world who have killed, will kill and plot to kill in defence of their religious beliefs. I find the spectre of Islamic terrorism terrifying."
That's true of many religions, including Christianity which has a long sordid history of genocide. But more so true of governments that have killed, will kill and plot to kill in defense of their standing, including US and UK governments, even and sometimes especially their own people. You haven't answered the question, you just danced around it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2013 18:12:06 GMT -5
Because it's not a conspiracy theory it is a fact. I've done research too Bob.It's no more than a politicized propaganda tool, not fact. I know, you've researched everything that supports the official 9/11 conspiracy theory. Regardless, what's the point in constantly repeating it? Everyone knows the story. "I don't find it comforting at all to think that there are people in this world who have killed, will kill and plot to kill in defence of their religious beliefs. I find the spectre of Islamic terrorism terrifying."That's true of many religions, including Christianity which has a long sordid history of genocide. But more so true of governments that have killed, will kill and plot to kill in defense of their standing, including US and UK governments, even and sometimes especially their own people. You haven't answered the question, you just danced around it. I have a natural intellectual curiosty Bob which has caused me to consider some very obscure and in some cases taboo versions of history, but in the case of 9/11 I just haven't heard anything compelling enough to cause me to reconsider what you regard as the official story. But it IS true Bob that some people won't consider alternative versions of history because the implications and consequences of such things are simply too horrible for them to imagine.
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Post by bob0627 on Jul 19, 2013 20:38:37 GMT -5
"in the case of 9/11 I just haven't heard anything compelling enough to cause me to reconsider what you regard as the official story"
You certainly have the absolute right to keep your blinders on. However, you do know that 2/3 of the 9/11 Commission members and the chief counsel have publicly admitted they were lied to, set up to fail, underfunded and that the co-chairs have recommended a permanent 9/11 Commission because they know they haven't gotten at the entire story, right? And that's a fact, not a conspiracy theory. You also must know that the vast majority of questions submitted to them were never answered or even addressed. I could be wrong about this but you also can't possibly believe that government and its puppet media is the source of truth. So if none of that is "compelling" enough for you, nothing is and no one needs to convince you of anything you've already closed your mind about (despite your claim that you're "open minded").
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2013 21:37:19 GMT -5
"in the case of 9/11 I just haven't heard anything compelling enough to cause me to reconsider what you regard as the official story"You certainly have the absolute right to keep your blinders on. However, you do know that 2/3 of the 9/11 Commission members and the chief counsel have publicly admitted they were lied to, set up to fail, underfunded and that the co-chairs have recommended a permanent 9/11 Commission because they know they haven't gotten at the entire story, right? And that's a fact, not a conspiracy theory. You also must know that the vast majority of questions submitted to them were never answered or even addressed. I could be wrong about this but you also can't possibly believe that government and its puppet media is the source of truth. So if none of that is "compelling" enough for you, nothing is and no one needs to convince you of anything you've already closed your mind about (despite your claim that you're "open minded"). "I could be wrong about this but you also can't possibly believe that government and its puppet media is the source of truth." We hold THESE truths to be self-evident. Although, I would also say that we DO have a puppet media, but not one controlled by the government, but rather one contolled by those who CONTROL the government.
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Post by bob0627 on Jul 19, 2013 22:51:52 GMT -5
"We hold THESE truths to be self-evident."
Yes, meaning truth is self-evident and irrefutable. Truth never changes, lies always do.
"Although, I would also say that we DO have a puppet media, but not one controlled by the government, but rather one contolled by those who CONTROL the government."
I have no argument with that and I stand corrected.
So then if you believe the above, why on earth would you accept what you've been fed by government as truth? Regardless that you say you haven't seen anything compelling enough to reconsider the official story, you already stated more than enough reason to compel you to consider that it can't be truth or at the very least that it can't ALL be true. And if that's the case, everything must be reconsidered because you don't have enough to be able to sort out truth from fiction. This is simple logic.
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Post by shred on Jul 20, 2013 6:46:40 GMT -5
To the victims of the attacks in the moments before they died there was no conspiracy theory about what the 19 hijackers had done to them. There was no conspiracy theory in the minds of those who jumped from the twin towers. There was no conspiracy theory in the mind of Barbara Olson before she died. Nor was there any conspiracy theory in the minds of Jeremy Glick, Todd Beamer, Mark Bingham and Tom Burnett. 19 men hijacked planes and crashed them. This is absolute fact there's no conspiracy theory about it. In crashing those planes severe damage was done to the twin towers. This is absolute fact. Nobody above the impact zone of WTC1 made it out as all the core stairwells in that building were severed along with core columns. Only 16 people made it down from WTC2 down stairway A. usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2002/05/17/stairway.htmThe only fireproofing to protect the core columns of the twin towers was Gypsum 'Drywall' board, survivors tell of drywall lying on the staircase of stairway A. www.nytimes.com/2002/05/26/nyregion/26STOWER.html?pagewanted=9The planes hit fully furnished offices doing massive structural damage and starting widespread fires: The effect of fire upon steel has been discussed in great depth already. There's no theory about it. I'm telling you the absolute truth.
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