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Post by bob0627 on May 1, 2013 8:30:14 GMT -5
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Post by shred on May 1, 2013 8:52:30 GMT -5
Re the video it's Cobblers.
Operation Gladio was a NATO "stay behind plan" for IF the Soviet Union invaded Western Europe. The idea based upon Churchill's Wartime proposals as to what could be done in event of German invasion of Britain and what the Special Operations Executive did in occupied countries to make life hard for the Germans. One such clandestine operative was the actor Sir Christopher Lee.
Operation Gladio was basically this: If invaded sabotage agents would remain behind enemy lines assassinating enemy officers, disrupting communications lines, sabotaging railways, bombing road convoys and causing havoc for the invaders. Nowhere did it propose actual terrorism against civilian targets to spread fear against Communism.
It's perfectly logical resistance to invasion.
On the other side of the coin, Islamists look at America see your country around the world, they see you as an invader, a supporter of Israel who they view as oppressors, they believe your country to be at war against Islam. They believe your country is killing Muslims. Motivated Islamic terrorists carry out terrorism against you because they want revenge.
I'm not justifying the terrorism they carry out but they are motivated by a desire for revenge. That is why terrorist attacks have happened on US soil carried out by Jihadists, or as they call themselves, "Mujahideen".
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Post by bob0627 on May 1, 2013 9:00:44 GMT -5
Operation Gladio is undisputed historical fact. Gladio was part of a post-World War II program set up by the CIA and NATO supposedly to thwart future Soviet/communist invasions or influence in Italy and Western Europe. In fact, it became a state-sponsored right-wing terrorist network, involved in false flag operations and the subversion of democracy. The existence of Gladio was confirmed and admitted by the Italian government in 1990, after a judge, Felice Casson, discovered the network in the course of his investigations into right-wing terrorism. Italian prime minister Giulio Andreotti admitted Gladio’s existence but tried to minimize its significance. The main function of the Gladio-style groups, in the absence of Soviet invasion, seems to have been to discredit left-wing groups and politicians through the use of “the strategy of tension,” including false-flag terrorism. The strategy of tension is a concept for control and manipulation of public opinion through the use of fear, propaganda, agents provacateurs, terrorism, etc. The aim was to instill fear into the populace while framing communist and left-wing political opponents for terrorist atrocities. Gladio and its “stay-behind” networks may be one of the most historically “accepted” or “confirmed” examples of false-flag terrorism. The documentation, the resolutions, confessions, and convictions all confirm that Gladio is much more than the media or government would have you believe—a mere “conspiracy theory.” See the State Department’s special site dedicated to dismissing “conspiracy theories,” including their page on Gladio. Truth movers should take advantage of Gladio and the stay-behind networks as a confirmed precedent of the US and western governments participating in ruthless terrorist attacks against their own people in order instill fear, control the population, and frame left-wing political opponents. People who believe that such things do not or cannot happen should be forcefully made aware of such examples as Operation Gladio. Evidence The August 2, 1980 bombing of the Bologna train station which killed 85 people, is widely recognized as a Gladio operation. While it was initially blamed on the communist “Red Brigades,” eventually, right-wing and fascists elements were discoverd to be the culprits. Two Italian secret service agents and Licio Gelli, the head of the infamous P2 Masonic lodge, were convicted in connection to the bombing. 1 “The makings of the bomb… came from an arsenal used by Gladio… according to a parliamentary commission on terrorism… The suggested link with the Bologna massacre is potentially the most serious of all the accusations levelled against Gladio, and comes just two days after the Italian Prime Minister, Giulio Andreotti, cleared Gladio’s name in a speech to parliament, saying that the secret army did not drift from its formal Nato military brief” The Guardian January 16, 1991 1 1969: “In Italy, the Piazza Fontana massacre in Milan kills 16 and injures and maims 80 [….] during a trial of rightwing extremists General Giandelio Maletti, former head of Italian counterintelligence, alleges that the massacre had been carried out by the Italian stay-behind army and rightwing terrorists on the orders of the US secret service CIA in order to discredit Italian Communists.” 10 1985: “In Belgium, a secret army attacks and shoots shoppers in supermarkets randomly in the Brabant county killing 28 and leaving many wounded. Investigations link the terror to a conspiracy among the Belgian stay-behind SDRA8, the Belgian Gendarmerie SDRA6, the Belgian right-wing group WNP and the Pentagon secret service DIA.” 10 According to Vincenzo Vinciguerra, a far-right terrorist linked to Gladio and currently serving a life-sentence for the car bomb murder of 3 policement, “The reason was quite simple. They were supposed to force these people, the Italian public, to turn to the state to ask for greater security. This is the political logic that lies behind all the massacres and the bombings which remain unpunished, because the state cannot convict itself or declare itself responsible for what happened.” 6 Vinciguerra also made this statement to The Guardian, “The terrorist line was followed by camouflaged people, people belonging to the security apparatus, or those linked to the state apparatus through rapport or collaboration. I say that every single outrage that followed from 1969 fitted into a single, organised matrix… Avanguardia Nazionale, like Ordine Nuovo (the main right-wing terrorist group active during the 1970s), were being mobilised into the battle as part of an anti-communist strategy originating not with organisations deviant from the institutions of power, but from within the state itself, and specifically from within the ambit of the state’s relations within the Atlantic Alliance.” 1 In 1990, the European Parliament passed a resolution condemning Gladio. The resolution requested full investigations and a total dismantlement of the paramilitary structures involved—neither of which have come to pass. Similar Gladio-like operations have been discovered across Europe, including France, Belgium, Denmark, The Netherlands, Norway, Germany, Switzerland… www.truthmove.org/content/operation-gladio/
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Post by shred on May 1, 2013 9:27:22 GMT -5
That's not what the mighty wikipedia says: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_gladioIt says it was a plan to be put into effect IF the Soviet Union were to invade Western Europe. In 1940, when faced with invasion my country trained commandos some prepared to mount stay behind campaigns either on their own or in pairs, arms caches were placed in forests to prepare. Individuals were sworn to secrecy they couldn't even discuss with their own family what they would do in an invasion. Life expectancy for such men after an invasion was less than two weeks. Their job, effectively terrorism against the enemy. Assassination of any suspected Nazi Sympathisers, disruption of railways and roads, bombing of buildings taken over by enemy troops. Assassination of enemy commanders. The SOE was very successful in occupied Europe, NATO's stay behind policy would have required the same tactics including hidden forest caches. But you're not listening. Forget Gladio. Let's talk about the Boston Bombing, let's talk about the two Chechens who attacked Boston. They had a grudge with the USA. They bombed the marathon out of a belief that the USA is at war with Islam. They look at Drone Strikes, they look at your alliance with Israel, they look at the suffering of Palestinians, they look at Afghanistan and Iraq. They look at what your country has done around the world, they look at you and see an enemy. They want to make you suffer the way Muslims have suffered because of American military policy in Afghanistan and Iraq and elsewhere.
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Post by bob0627 on May 1, 2013 9:33:50 GMT -5
"That's not what the mighty wikipedia says"
So what else is new?
"Forget Gladio."
Why?
"Let's talk about the Boston Bombing, let's talk about the two Chechens who attacked Boston. They had a grudge with the USA. They bombed the marathon out of a belief that the USA is at war with Islam. They look at Drone Strikes, they look at your alliance with Israel, they look at the suffering of Palestinians, they look at Afghanistan and Iraq. They look at what your country has done around the world, they look at you and see an enemy. They want to make you suffer the way Muslims have suffered because of American military policy in Afghanistan and Iraq and elsewhere."
They told you this? Obviously one of them had to tell you before he died though. When did he tell you and why didn't you go to the authorities?
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Post by shred on May 1, 2013 9:51:55 GMT -5
It's what motivates all Mujahideen to attack western countries.
Loads more have just been banged up in Gaol in my country recently. Every time the motive is the same. It's what motivated Andrew Ibrahim Richard Dart, Nicky Reilly, Mohammed Siddique Kahn, Bilal Abdullah, Richard Reid and many others.
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Post by bob0627 on May 1, 2013 10:03:21 GMT -5
"It's what motivates all Mujahideen to attack western countries."
That may be but you were specifically talking about the Boston bombers and making very specific claims as to their motives. This has been your M.O. from your very first post in this forum. You make all sorts of claims and say or purport that it's all fact and truth. You never say it's just your opinion. This is one reason among many that causes you to have zero credibility.
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Post by shred on May 1, 2013 10:15:55 GMT -5
Yeah, the Chechen Mujahids who bombed the marathon had a motive, they wouldn't have done it otherwise. What could that motive be ? Best guess, Political, a reaction against America's foreign policy & the use of Drones which have killed civilians. It was an act of revenge.
That's an educated guess btw.
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Post by bob0627 on May 1, 2013 10:49:26 GMT -5
Well at least you admit it's just your opinion. You can't be taken seriously when you post your opinion and insinuate it's fact.
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Post by shred on May 1, 2013 11:08:32 GMT -5
The facts I've given you about steel in fire are not opinions. Steel has mathematical properties and will perform as calculated. Mathematical models of steel buildings will perform exactly as real steel buildings will provided the equations have the correct details.
So by definition a statement on how mathematical recreations verify that structural damage and fire were sufficient and how photographic evidence SHOWS a bending moment taking place, is not an opinion but a statement of fact.
Whereas a best guess to the motives of a terrorist, when so many others like him have had the same motives (Mohammed Merah last year blamed French foreign policy and support for Israel as motive for his actions) is an educated but logical guess.
I could be wrong about Boston, it could have been an insane cult of Trekkies annoyed that Boston's marathon has never been mentioned in the Star Trek universe so are determined to erase it, but I doubt it. .
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Post by bob0627 on May 1, 2013 20:38:54 GMT -5
"The facts I've given you about steel in fire are not opinions."
Most of your statements contain a mix of alleged fact, theory and/or opinion that you always claim is fact. The rest of your post is a perfect example. Regardless, what happened to the 3 buildings on 9/11 is reality, not theory, opinion or a hypothetical mathematical equation.
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Post by shred on May 2, 2013 14:21:22 GMT -5
Regardless, what happened to the 3 buildings on 9/11 is reality, not theory
Correct, reality is they were structurally damaged and on fire and collapsed for those reasons.
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Post by bob0627 on May 2, 2013 14:43:03 GMT -5
Regardless, what happened to the 3 buildings on 9/11 is reality, not theory Correct, reality is they were structurally damaged and on fire and collapsed for those reasons. Your opinion is not reality, it's just your opinion. You do understand the difference, right? BTW, that's rhetorical, I already know the answer.
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Post by shred on May 2, 2013 15:27:12 GMT -5
My understanding of what happened is reality.
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Post by bob0627 on May 2, 2013 16:02:08 GMT -5
My understanding of what happened is reality. Your understanding of what happened is your reality, not necessarily anyone else's.
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Post by shred on May 3, 2013 2:41:13 GMT -5
No mate, what I understand is the reality of what happened to the buildings irrespective of what you BELIEVE happened.
You should be more interested in day to day corruption in politics than spectacular wild goose chases.
Watergate was a real conspiracy. They couldn't even pull off a simple burglary properly.
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Post by bob0627 on May 3, 2013 7:13:21 GMT -5
"what I understand is the reality of what happened to the buildings irrespective of what you BELIEVE happened."
Same s**t put a different way, your reality is irrespective of anyone else's reality.
"You should be more interested in day to day corruption in politics than spectacular wild goose chases."
9/11 WAS the most corrupt event in the history of the US and has and is being used as a pretext for all the massive corrupt practices since 9/11. That's why it's so important. I said that when I first started posting in this forum about 9/11.
Watergate was just one more in a long history of crimes committed by those in government.
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Post by shred on May 3, 2013 7:31:07 GMT -5
Your opinion. Still waiting for you to produce hard evidence to corroborate your claims about that.
Waiting for you to provide evidence to support your theory exhonourating the Boston bombers too.
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Post by bob0627 on May 3, 2013 7:38:14 GMT -5
Keep waiting, I posted many links and opinions, what you want to do with all that is your business, I don't owe you anything and it's not my job to convince you of anything.
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Post by shred on May 3, 2013 7:41:03 GMT -5
Bulls**t links and opinions aren't evidence. If you're going to make a claim back it up with facts please.
Still waiting for proof of thermite.
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Post by bob0627 on May 3, 2013 11:16:02 GMT -5
"Bulls**t links and opinions aren't evidence."
True, neither are your lies and fabrications.
"If you're going to make a claim back it up with facts please."
If I do, I certainly will as I've always done.
"Still waiting for proof of thermite."
Ok. I can only provide links to papers on nano-thermite as I have already done. As I said, what you want to do with those is your prerogative. I don't have any thermite in my house and if I did, I would not send you a sample.
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Post by bob0627 on May 3, 2013 20:45:18 GMT -5
Report: U.S. Government and NATO Worked with Bin Laden and His Top Lieutenant 3 Months AFTER 9/11 FBI Translator Alleges that Bin Laden and His Number 2 Worked as Part of Operation GladioFormer FBI translator Sibel Edmonds has been deemed credible by the Department of Justice’s Inspector General, several senators (free subscription required), and a coalition of prominent conservative and liberal groups. The ACLU described Edmonds as: The most gagged person in the history of the United States of America. And famed Pentagon Papers whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg says that Edmonds possesses information “far more explosive than the Pentagon Papers”. Edmonds translated terror-related communications for the FBI right after 9/11. In that capacity, she read communications between terrorists and other radicals. Edmonds said last week that Bin Laden – and his number 2 Al Qaeda lieutenant – Ayman al-Zawahiri – worked with the U.S. government for 3 months after 9/11 to coordinate destablization in the Caucus region: <video> By way of background, the former Italian Prime Minister, an Italian judge, and the former head of Italian counterintelligence admit that NATO, with the help of the Pentagon and CIA, carried out terror bombings in Italy and other European countries in the 1950s and blamed the communists, in order to rally people’s support for their governments in Europe in their fight against communism. As one participant in this formerly-secret program stated: “You had to attack civilians, people, women, children, innocent people, unknown people far removed from any political game. The reason was quite simple. They were supposed to force these people, the Italian public, to turn to the state to ask for greater security” (and see this)(Italy and other European countries subject to the terror campaign had joined NATO before the bombings occurred). This was codenamed “Operation Gladio”. And watch this BBC special. And see this for background. Edmonds says that some portions of Operation Gladio are continuing to this day, and that Ayman al-Zawahiri and Bin Laden worked for NATO and the Pentagon as part of Operation Gladio: <video> Edmonds told us: For the past 11 years I have been emphasizing that my State Secrets Privilege & Gag Orders had to do with the FBI files (covering period 1996-2002 February) on covert-terrorist operations in Caucasus and Central Asia backed, managed and armed by US actors. These US-NATO directed operations in the region involved Bin-Laden and mainly Zawahiri ….. The FBI documents contained damning evidence (audio and written) collected between 1996-2002 tying these terror operations directly to the U.S. persons in the State Department/CIA and Pentagon. Also, how the State Department got Congress to grant huge amounts of funds to “front’ NGOs and businesses (mainly Turkish companies in US-listed/members of ATC) to funnel money to the terrorist cells in this region. If this sounds crazy, please remember that the former U.S. National Security Adviser (and a top Obama foreign policy adviser) admitted that the U.S. created, organized and armed the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan – including Bin Laden – to fight the Soviets. (The Mujahadeen eventually morphed into Al Qaeda.) And the same National Security Adviser wrote a book in 1997 saying that the Caucasus and Central Asian regions – the same 2 regions which Edmonds told us that NATO and the U.S. deployed Zawahiri and Bin-Laden to influence – were the key to geopolitical power. For example, he wrote: The Eurasian Balkans include nine countries that one way or another fit the foregoing description [of regions vital for the U.S. to control] (p.124) “[The Central Asian Republics] are of importance from the standpoint of security and historical ambitions to at least three of their most immediate and more powerful neighbors, namely Russia, Turkey and Iran, with China also signaling an increasing political interest in the region. But the Eurasian Balkans are infinitely more important as a potential economic prize: an enormous concentration of natural gas and oil reserves is located in the region, in addition to important minerals, including gold.” (p.124) “Ever since the continents started interacting politically, some five hundred years ago, Eurasia has been the center of world power.”- (p. xiii) “It is imperative that no Eurasian challenger emerges, capable of dominating Eurasia and thus of also challenging America. The formulation of a comprehensive and integrated Eurasian geostrategy is therefore the purpose of this book.” (p. xiv) And the U.S. has backed the most dangerous and radical Muslim terrorists for decades. And the mainstream French paper Le Figaro alleged that the CIA met with Bin Laden 2 months before 9/11. And 9/11 Commissioners admit that they never got to the bottom of 9/11. For example: 9/11 Commission co-chair Lee Hamilton says “I don’t believe for a minute we got everything right”, that the Commission was set up to fail, that people should keep asking questions about 9/11, and that the 9/11 debate should continue 9/11 Commissioner Bob Kerrey said that “There are ample reasons to suspect that there may be some alternative to what we outlined in our version . . . We didn’t have access . . . .” He also says that it might take “a permanent 9/11 commission” to end the remaining mysteries of September 11 www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/05/report-u-s-government-worked-with-bin-laden-and-his-top-lieutenant-2-months-after-911.htmlUse the link above for additional supporting links and the videos.
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