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Post by shred on Sept 19, 2013 14:41:12 GMT -5
What I say about them is the truth.
I've proven them to be liars. Lear is proven to be a fabricator. They shot themselves in the feet when they started lying.
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Post by bob0627 on Sept 19, 2013 14:51:57 GMT -5
BTW, not that it matters but I don't ascribe to John Lear's claim that no planes hit the towers. Planes hitting the towers are on video so his claim is obviously bogus. He's not the only member of Pilots for 9/11 Truth, there are at least 200 pilots that are members and they seem to all agree about the airline speeds and what's possible and what's impossible. All I can say about that since I'm certainly no expert is that if a commercial airliner can't achieve those velocities at near sea level without breaking up, those airliners could not have been commercial airliners.
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Post by shred on Sept 19, 2013 15:06:29 GMT -5
It doesn't matter if 200 people lie or a million their lie remains a lie no matter how many tell it. Boeing don't agree with them, and Boeing made the planes. A Boeing engineer (who happens to be a 9/11 conspiracy theorist himself) doesn't agree with them and he knows the tolerances of the planes inside out. He did his own tests on a full scale official Boeing simulator whose design parameters are exactly the same as a real Boeing and says that those speeds are well within the capabilities of the jets that were hijacked. Those airliners can achieve those velocities at near sea level without breaking up. 911blogger.com/node/20232If official Boeing simulators were no good, they wouldn't be endorsed by Boeing would they ? They wouldn't be used to train Pilots, would they ? Official full cockpit simulators costing £127 per hour rental would be criminal if it wasn't a valid and accurate training aid wouldn't it ? www.pmflight.co.uk/?gclid=CKPG-fmj2LkCFdHMtAodWT4AZA
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Post by bob0627 on Sept 19, 2013 15:51:43 GMT -5
"Boeing don't agree with them, and Boeing made the planes."
According to the pilots "Boeing sets maximum operating speeds for the 767 as 360 Knots (414 MPH) and .86 Mach.".
"A Boeing engineer (who happens to be a 9/11 conspiracy theorist himself) doesn't agree with them and he knows the tolerances of the planes inside out. He did his own tests on a full scale official Boeing simulator whose design parameters are exactly the same as a real Boeing and says that those speeds are well within the capabilities of the jets that were hijacked. Those airliners can achieve those velocities at near sea level without breaking up."
And again, why is this guy not a liar when every person who posts on these sites is a liar to you? You are so obvious any fool can see through your crap. When a claim works for your agenda then you accept it as gospel no matter who it comes from. But when it doesn't, it's a lie, a fake or doctored.
The pilot who claims he flew both airplanes that crashed on 9/11 also claims those speeds are impossible. He should know what he's talking about as well.
"Egypt Air 990 (EA990) is a 767 which was reported to have entered a dive and accelerated to a peak speed of .99 Mach at 22,000 feet."
Egypt Air 990 broke up at that velocity at 22,000 feet, not at sea level. It was a real plane, not a simulator.
"If official Boeing simulators were no good, they wouldn't be endorsed by Boeing would they ? They wouldn't be used to train Pilots, would they ?"
Apples and oranges. Training simulators are not used to test aircraft integrity at high velocities. Wind tunnels are used for that purpose and obviously simulators are not put through wind tunnel tests. That would be silly. You should know that Mr. alleged Pilot. Why is it I know that and you don't or pretend you don't.
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Post by shred on Sept 20, 2013 3:29:25 GMT -5
?? 0.99 mach is beyond VNE and is much faster than the kamikaze airline crashes on 11th September 2001. The VNE of 767's and 757's is 0.86 mach all the kamikaze crashes were at velocities below 0.86 mach so the crash speeds of the aircraft involved were indeed possible. Aviation safety network on Flight 11: aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20010911-0Nowhere near Mach 1 or VNE. Aviation safety network on Flight 77: Nowhere near Mach 1 or VNE. Aviation safety network on Flight 175: I believe the phrase you are searching for is "I stand corrected Shred none of the aircraft involved struck the target buildings at impossible speeds".
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Post by bob0627 on Sept 20, 2013 7:26:37 GMT -5
Mach .99 for EA990 was measured at 22,000 feet, not sea level where the atmosphere is much denser. The pilots explained it quite well using VMO so that even a pretend pilot can understand it.
Let's see, Shred's bulls**t vs 200 REAL pilots. Shred's bulls**t vs over 2,000 experts and academics. Shred's bulls**t vs the FACTS, the SCIENCE, the LOGIC and just about everything I know. This is a really tough decision for me ... not.
Anyway, they said it was IMPOSSIBLE. Another pilot who used simulator data as opposed to wind tunnel data said it's possible. Then there's a real life example that broke up at a VMO speed less than the known speeds of the 3 "planes" that crashed on 9/11. The logic leans well in favor of the 200 pilots. So at best, the entire argument is debatable, not settled.
BTW, that was a really good answer as to why you didn't call the guy whose article appeared in what you usually call a "troofer site" a liar. Oh wait ... you never answered that question. Why is that?
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Post by shred on Sept 20, 2013 9:34:39 GMT -5
I am a real pilot. There's nobody in there with me. I passed my exams I'm a solo glider pilot. One of our tuggies is a retired airline pilot who used to fly 747's for Cathay Pacific, he now trains airline pilots on official full cockpit simulators. Wind tunnel data is used to set VNE and VNE is mach 0.86, none of the hijacked planes passed through VNE during the attacks so stop fabricating and lying Bob.
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Post by bob0627 on Sept 20, 2013 9:57:13 GMT -5
"I am a real pilot"
Sure Shred, if you say so.
"stop fabricating and lying Bob"
Right.
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Post by shred on Sept 20, 2013 10:55:16 GMT -5
Gliders are planes like any other, they have the same control surfaces (Ailerons, elevator & rudder), trim control for balancing the plane...
What they lack is yaw dampers and engines to bail us out of trouble. Flying them has to be very accurate we use our feet a lot. Airline pilots don't because the yaw dampers and engine thrust prevents adverse yaw from being a problem for them.
We're also trained to fly with airspeed indicator and altimeter covered up as Pitot tubes can ice up and altimeters are barometric devices which cannot always be trusted.
The speeds we fly at are way below those at which airliners fly, VNE is much lower also, but I fly for fun, I can't afford to buy an airliner and the principles of flight are the same with all fixed wing aircraft.
None of the hijacked jets went through VNE. Boeing would have a lot to say if those jets had gone through VNE.
It was the most filmed terrorist attack in history Bob, there is no way your government could possibly have faked it. You have fallen for the lies of con artists whose fabricated fake evidence has you suckered.
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Post by bob0627 on Sept 20, 2013 11:14:30 GMT -5
"there is no way your government could possibly have faked it."
Ok, whew, I'm glad you made me see the light. I was really getting worried there for a moment.
"You have fallen for the lies of con artists whose fabricated fake evidence has you suckered."
I guess so, what a mistake, eh?
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